Thursday 19 January 2012

Reds in fleet?

So (KBG) currently shares the 'redsinfleet' intel channel, created as the brainchild of itsmeHck and occupied by Shadow Cartel Alliance and the infamous Tuskers.

The idea behind the channel is pretty simple; the people involved in the channel are not blue to each-other but can invite each-other to fleets when needed. The idea is pretty simple indeed but the execution is more complicated than one might think. There have been several altercations that have jeopardized the future of the channel but this post is my views on it and in no way represent the views of anyone else.

In the time that we have spent under Shadow Cartel's wings there have been a few occasions where I had to check with Alliance Leadership if certain targets are fair targets for us. There are a certain amount of pilots in the area that may be 'blue' to the Alliance but not to -KBG-, regardless we have chosen to adopt the same stance and have not opened fire.

When encountering a Tusker around the start of our time at Shadow Cartel I asked what rules of engagements we have with our 'enemies with benefits'. The answer was clear, engage at will but remain respectful, wherever possible ransom there pods rather than popping them.

Now these are not strange rules to follow or unreasonable, we have a similar understanding with Heretics in Amamake and The Bastards in Evati.

Over the last few days something has become more evident in the KBG relation with the Tuskers. Bastards and Heretics will wave in local and strike up a chat here and there, with a few exceptions the Tuskers do not.

There are a handful of Tuskers that are actually very friendly and accommodating, but the majority seems to have grown a dislike towards at least myself.

What is the point of this post? I don't know really, perhaps I am still a little disappointed in the actions of a particular Tusker yesterday and am not sure how to proceed.

Occasionally I fly to Hevrice to pick fights with the Tuskers, losing some winning some. Although I am space poor I wouldn't even ransom their pods if on a given occasion I would be quicker than their pro-pod-warps. I either don't even lock them or would let them go for a nominal fee to prove a point. If I win I even return their dropped items as an offer of respect.

Having spoken to several friendly Tuskers this is a tactic returned and part of the 'Pirate-code', making isk of a pod ransom is usually worth more than pod goo splattered over your ship.

In a moment of extreme derp I exploded my Jaguar 30 clicks from the Tusker home-station after mistakingly aggressing first and taking station sentry gun fire as well. The shock of my derp and in the following panic I failed to whip my pod out quick enough and was scrambled.

Mixed emotions of 'oh fuck' and 'it's ok, think ransom' shot through my head before being replaced with rage as station environment loaded.

I lost over 900 million isk in implants as I was carrying my low-grade Snakes and other stuff. Yes, it was my derp, yes I didn't get my pod out in time, yes we are not blue to each-other...

But how can I possibly fleet up with this jerk that in my eyes did me wrong and cost me serious spacemonies? I am stuck in a bit of a pickle as I cannot leave the channels we share, and there will be occasions where we will be forced to fleet up by our superiors. Or, will I refuse to fly with Tuskers? Or deny my Corp to fly with them? or just when the jerk is in the same fleet? Should I gank the fucker when we do share a fleet? Why can't I just get over myself? Have a quafe a smile and stfu?

Yes I am butthurt and yes I am still raging, I is mad bro mkay. Even more so now he has quoted me in his bio like a trophy and takes the piss out of me on their killboard. You fucking prick.

Politics in EVE suck balls.


  1. See I told you, you shouldn't have left Heimatar

  2. lol maybe... friends that are not blue are difficult to deal with. As i said its not even the losses or the podding its his behaviour afterwards that has made me mad... there is no need to troll it, then expect to fly together on another day. maybe it is ok for some but not with me.

  3. I think what may be bothering you is that you were not treated as respectfully as you feel that you should have. I tend to have the same reactions when not respected in local, inasmuch the other pilot did not follow the pirate code in ransoming the pod, he shot first and podded someone who may be required to fly with him in the future. I think anyone would have the same issues you are having, but it sounds like he is further rubbing salt into the wound which has had this effect on you.

    I don't think I could fly in a fleet with this person either, I would want to exact revenge at the earliest moment myself.


  4. Ouch. No doubt that transversing the delicate flowers that are within the general "friends with benefits" package can be confusing. Goodness knows there have been many, many examples of that in the last year. Heck, just last week I lost a Tornado to friends, friends who ended up being compensated for their losses - but no one thought to compensate poor Rixx. :(

    My real question has to be, why did you engage him on station? Tawa is probably the only tusker that has a positive sec status. I certainly don't know the details, but that seems basic pirating 101.

    As for the trolling, I haven't seen it myself so I don't know what was said after the fact. Personally I never grab the pods of anyone I know or that has fought respectively. But that's just me.

    It has been great seeing you in local though and getting to fly with you. Hopefully that continues.

  5. "When encountering a Tusker around the start of our time at Shadow Cartel I asked what rules of engagements we have with our 'enemies with benefits'. The answer was clear, engage at will but remain respectful, wherever possible ransom there pods rather than popping them."

    Slippery slope, as this seems like hearsay and is in itself a pretty vague statement. Can only refer to Tusker Code, which has not been violated.

    Besides our code, there are no other officially documented agreements I know of regarding Reds In Fleet - Tuskers in fleet won't screw you over ever, otherwise any boat violence is fair game.

    Rubbing it in on killboard and bio may not show the best manners, but nothing out of line from our perspective.

    If you disagree with any of the above and would like to talk it over, feel free to put up a thread in our Customer Relations section.

  6. Yeah rixx I derped, saw yellow box then mistook it turning red...

  7. Yeah, I figured that's what happened. Serious bummer.

  8. Condolences on the loss; I always find the variation in eve-kill implant prices interesting.

  9. It's just a game, and people can do whatever they want in a sandbox environment. You can dictate how you'll act in such a stage, but not others, so don't share your morals and values to others and expect them to be reciprocated.

    I've been running a similar channel for molden heath pirates for well over a year now, and the results have been very rewarding, with its share of people taking advantage of the system. If you don't want to deal with people in the channel, block them or just turn blink off. Nothing stopping you from doing your own thing either.

  10. Yeah this is probably my bad - i've directed my guys to ransom anyone in that channel where possible as straight podding IMO isn't conducive to maintaining a good relationship (as seen here) and it's not like pod kills get you any money. This wasn't agreed with any other groups though of course but to be honest I assumed the tuskers as a more piracy orientated organisation would ransom pods as a default, especially 30km off of station in their home system with no likely backup on the way.- I think you may have fallen victim to the new shiny implants on killmails aspect or maybe he just doesnt like you :P

  11. thanks for the comment sard but you fail to see the point of the post.

    baggins i dont blaim you, this is entirely my own fault

  12. Nashh you actually popped within docking range of the station, so a ransom wasn't possible in this situation, regardless of whether or not we follow a "Pirate Code".

    Also using an boosting alt to fight someone in the exact same ship as you is bad form.

  13. i was 30 clicks clear from station and had aggression so i wasnt able to dock suli.

    also i didnt have my boosting alt in system at the time and i think you are hardly the person to call it bad form even if i did.

  14. As one of the Tuskers who will always attempt a ransom when possible you'd think I'd be sympathetic to your plea, but the Tusker in question did as he pleased, as he probably either made a snap tactical decision regarding the station and thus popped you or he wanted the shiny. Not our place to judge.

    I think it's unfair to use this '30 clicks' argument against considering you were foolish enough to both get yourself in that situation, die, then not get your pod out simultaneously. Perhaps he just derped too?

    Finally, I've always been against RiF from day 1 and it's ridiculous stuff like this that makes me think it's not worth the occasional carrier blob. So you got podded, you can blame the guy who played the game right or you can blame yourself for messing up so hard.

  15. I am not sure how I feel about reds in fleet.. It's a good idea in principle, but in practice fighting each other leads to resentment, and dislike .. Which is I suppose why we are red to each other in the first place..

    Yes, it's 'just a game' and we should all 'get over it' but with such a harsh loss penalty in EVE, it's hard to just 'get over it' when you lose something expensive and dear to you to someone you're expected to ally with a few hours later.

    I think there is some resentment brewing among a lot of the shadow cartel players and maybe the tuskers too.. Quite a few people refuse to participate in these mixed fleets and given that, does the benefit outweight the loss?

    Personally, the Tuskers have never wronged me.. I don't fight them on their terms, and likely will not.. I'm a fleeter/blobber and I'm fine with that -- it's my preference playstyle, solo PVP has never been much interest to me as finding a fair fight is nigh impossible and I don't have the liquid isk and skills for things like implants and boosting alts at the moment, so my best opportunity for kills is to fleet with my mates.

    I dislike the resentment and drame redsinfleet creates, and bite my tongue when others seethe at the tuskers (We all know the douchingtons don't like them), cuz well, those are my guys, my blues, the guys who's backs I have and who have mine.

    I'll hold my fire on that tusker in fleet, but be warned.. you are what you are to me: a target of opportunity as soon as you drop fleet and are session change out of system.

    I expect nothing less from you.